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This is an experiment to see how honest people can be if they don't have to identify themselves. Some silly, some deep, but all require honesty.
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66 comments:
Do you think the church should host a shower for an unwed pregnant girl? Like either a teen who has no intention of marrying the father or a 30 something who went to a sperm bank?
First off, I believe an unwed mom who doesn't marry the dad should give the baby up for adoption, they can hand pick a great married couple nowadays. It is horribly selfish to keep the baby and purposely deny him/her a father and intact family.
Anyways, to answer the question. NO, the church should not host a shower to celebrate the mom's stupidness/selfishness. Do I think we should give the mom things needed for the baby and food after the baby is born? Yes, I believe we should help them, but I don't believe we should have a party celebrating the mom's selfish behavior.
Why did I have to wake up to see the words stupid and selfish describing another human, let alone an unwed pregnant girl? I get so tired of the language on here.
Things happen. Mistakes happen. And older women who aren't married and desperately want children are contemplating going to sperm banks.
Without a doubt a church should host a baby shower for the girl. It's not about a party celebrating any type of behavior. It's about surrounding that woman/girl with Christian love and support.
My goodness. I have friend that wasn't married, got pregnant, and was bombarded with women that wanted to help host her shower. That baby is a beautiful little angel and will be raised by a MOTHER that chose to endure gossip, tsk tsks, and raised eyebrows by supposed Christians.
My sister-in-law has made poor decisions with boyfriends, and has now gotten pregnant twice. No, this isn't good, but I'm grateful for my Christian friends that came to her rescue the first time. This made some impact on her, but an enormous impact on my Mother in law (who is forced to raise these babies).
You never know who you are impacting with such a simple act as a baby shower. What a perfect way to show another God's grace and love. Isn't that what it's all about?
6:15 here, I said we help them, we should surround them with love and food and necessities for the baby. But we can't say it is okay for teens to get knocked up and older mothers to buy sperm at a bank and get pregnant and throw them a party! Absolutely not, a teen who gets pregnant at 15 and doesn't want to find the baby a loving couple becuase "it is her baby", sorry, not going to tell this girl that it is okay that she keeps this baby. I believe this is another example of "worldy behaviors" becoming acceptable in the church.
Ok 6:15, I'll agree with you some what. If a 15 year old gets pregnant, then I do think they should consider adoption (very heavily) because it's going to be hard to raise a baby and attend High School. HOWEVER, even if they don't consider adoption, I think it's our duty as Christians to show them love and support. A shower is one way of showing love. As 6:38 said...
"You never know who you are impacting with such a simple act as a baby shower."
I feel your attitude is why young Christians are following away from the church. They make mistakes and instead of showing them love and helping them see they made a mistake, we just call them stupid and selfish.
whoa.. So you are saying unless you throw them a party you aren't showing them love???? Why not call selfish behavior what it is?? Aren't we suppose to keep each other in check? -6:15
6:15, Just out of curiosity, how old is the baby you placed for adoption?
No, I said a shower was one way to show love. There are other ways but we are talking about showers.
You are right, we are suppose to keep each other in check. I think in a loving/nonjudmental way, you could talk to the expecting mother about her decisions. But popping your mouth off that she's stupid and selfish will accomplish nothing. I'm sure the girl knows she made a mistake, no need harp on her mistake.
YES. It is ultimately about the child, and what kind of dictatorship should decide who is WORTHY and UNWORTHY to have a shower.
Let's be loving and compasionate. It's too often that churches snub the people who need showers the most.
I'm close to 30 years old, and I might never get married. But I really want a child. I always assumed if I didn't get married, I would adopt or go to a sperm bank.
I think I would hurt if my church home did not throw me a shower, because I went to a sperm bank. Even though I did not go the normal route for kids, at least I'm wanting to raise a kid in a good Christian home and provide displine and love.
Just because you are 15 and having a baby doesn't mean you should give your child up for adoption.
I just love the broad range of stereotyping that goes on here.
I am appalled at 6:15 - what in the world. " believe an unwed mom who doesn't marry the dad should give the baby up for adoption"
WHAT?????
Maybe you have had bad experiences with this, or maybe it is just a young teen you are referring to, but MOST times getting married is NOT the best option. So yuo are going to make 2 mistakes to make up for one mistake. I know of a few girls who did get preg and got married and it worked out great for them, but it is NOT ALWAYS best.
in my case my sister got preg when she was 18 during her freshman year in college, she chose NOT to get married and it was the best decision. That guy is a total loser. My parents supported her and she went back to college and worked and got a degree. When my niece was 7 she got married to an awesome guy and they have an awesome life.
Now my niece is about to turn 17, is in the National Honor Society AND is a NATIONAL MERIT FINALIST. SHe is so smart, funny AND talented and I am SO HAPPY that my sister chose to keep her baby or be "selish" as 6:15 would say.
The church did give my sister a shower. Instead of looking at it as "the church should not host a shower to celebrate the mom's stupidness/selfishness" as 6:15 said you can say that the church is supporting her for her courage and the hope that the baby will be raised in a christain home.
I think it depends - I think either you should throw a nice shower, or collect $$$ for a nice gift basket or just collect $$$$$ for her.
We have had 3 pregnant teens at our church since I started attending.
First One ----> Church hosted a shower after the baby was born. Years later she mentioned in Bible class how she felt sow welcomed at the church even though she had made a "public sin" as she called it. She is a faithful regular member and is now married to a great Christian guy. (not to the father)
Second One ----> One of the ladies collected over a $1000 (not bad for a church of 200 members) for a "baby fund" for her. She had wanted to give the baby up for adoption, but bio dad wouldn't approve. I think collected the $ showed uncondional love
Third One ------> Collected $$$ for a gift basket and gift card. Mom told me she was glad to get help and asked what she could do in return. I said to just take your baby to Bible class regularly, so my baby will have a friend :)
( think that by showing Christian love to these women you a making a BIG IMPRESSION on Christ's Love and could therefore affect whether or not they stay faithful at the church later on..........
If you made a mistake and everyone shunned you, would you want to keep going to the church? No of course not! We need to be good examples!
8:03 --- Why can't you adopt? THere are THOUSANDS of THOUSANDS of kids looking for loving homes like yours. Babies are available too.
8:08 here: Who are YOU to call someone selfish? Go ahead and throw the first stone. I'll go ahead and lay down here in the dirt so you can hit me pretty easily.
Love thy neighbor as thyself. Love the Lord YOUR God with all your heart, soul and mind.
Instead of sitting back and judging who is selfish, who made a mistake, who brought a beautiful baby in this world in an unconventional way, how about we (both you and me) treat everyone with love. If you can't find yourself to support that unwed mother, then do it for the baby. That baby needs clothes, food and shelter. Do it out of love as Jesus would do.
6:15 am --- Since you think throwing a shower for an unwed teen is to "celebrated the mom's stupidness/selfishness".....
Do you thinking throwing a baby shower for a married couple
is
to
celebrate
their
night
of
passionate
wild
sex
?
6:15 - just go away!!
Just curious, for those of you against it, what if the mom was RAPED? Would you feel differently then?
Also, while I am supportive of teens giving their baby up for adoption, and think it's "horribly selfish" to keep the baby........ If you were pregnant and your husband DIED during the pregnancy, would it be "horrible selfish" for you to keep the baby? THANKS for answering!
To answer this question ---
As far a showers, NO. The teen probably doesn't want all the attention anyway.
BUT, they should do something. Such as collect MONEY for a nice large gift (crib, carseat, etc) or a gift card.
Unwed teen - Yes, throw a shower.
Woman who goes to a sperm bank - No, I couldn't bring myself to host a shower for that. Why can't they adopt?
6:15 and 6:51 am ----- I have known of two situations where the mom planned to give the baby up for adoption and the bio father refused and got a court order or whatever to stop it............ what about those situations?
Wow, who are we to judge other people? Who are we to decide who is worthy of raising a child? Some of the comments here show everything that is wrong with the world today.
Where in the verse about "love thy neighbor" does it say to love them only if they lead the perfect traditional christian life. To answer the question - YES, they are the people who need the love and support the most.
To answer the question, I think if the church wants to host a shower for anyone that is expecting a baby, then so be it. If you don't like the situation of the mother then don't go to the shower.
You guys are horrible to 6:15. Good Grief, let her have an opinon.
No, I would personally not attend a shower for an unwed mom or sperm bank mommy, but yes, I would give the baby things it needs. I wouldn't make a big deal about it, I just wouldn't attend.
So those of you who hate 6:15, I suppose you think it is fine for the church to throw a shower for a man who wants to marry another man?? Why would that be different?
6:15 here again, My problem lies with the "throwing a party" part. I think it is a great idea to collect $$ or buy a big gift. You guys are making it out that I want her to wear a sign that says "slut" while we parade her through the church naked.
Sorry, but I still think we shouldn't be celebrating a sin. No, the baby isn't a sin, I am talking about the premarital sex.
Yes. Why is it not ok for a single woman who decides she wants a child to have one? And I have just about had it with some of you. As for the pregnant girl. Are you seriously saying we shouldn't show her the love and forgiveness that Christ shows all of us? Should that baby be denied the basic necessities because of your hatefulness? THIS is why people have such a poor perception of Christians these days. Things like THIS.
"Why is it not okay for a single woman to have a baby?" Because she is purposely denying the kid a father, that is why. Someone has to sick up for the kid. I know in this feminazi world today men are useless, but they do play an important part in the life of a child believe it or not.
Yes in both situations. Babies should be celebrated even if how they are conceived isn't ideal.
We should do whatever we can to help and show God's love. If the unwed mom (of any age) desires a shower and is denied one, what would that do to her faith? If she is embarassed and doesn't want the attention, but is forced to have a shower, what would that do to her?
I think every situation is different and you shouldn't JUDGE anyone without walking in their shoes. You have NO idea what is going on in someone elses life.
As for the gay guy shower question. That is totally different. In the case of an unwed teen, it was a mistake. A sin, yes, but a mistake. A sin that can be forgiven and life can go on in a faithful way, she can turn away for any more premarital sex. A gay marriage is a choice to live in sin, continually.
8:10- In my previous statement I said..."I would adopt or go to a sperm bank." I'm sure I'll adopot, but I might decide I want to go the sperm bank way. I don't know...that's along ways for me.
8:03
I'm a little confused by the question: An unwed pregnant girl and a 30 something going to a sperm bank are TOTALLY DIFFERENT things!!
I believe EVERYONE expecting a baby should have a shower if they want!
I think the pregnant girl may not feel comfortable having friends come to church for a shower. Do you think she doesn't know that she screwed up?!? Have it at a home and make sure lots of loving nice church women show up. I know they could use it and would definitely appreciate it!
30 something from sperm band deserves a shower too! Why not?
I'm trying to understand where some of you are coming from, but just think if you were in their shoes, how would you look to them? Pretty snotty is my guess!
The church we used to go to would never throw anyone a shower unless you were someone special! I always felt so sad for the pregnant teen couple that got married and weren't the preacher's kid. They never got any showers wedding or baby, but the single elder's daughter got a huge baby shower!
Where we go now, they are so loving and accepting and would give a teen mom, that is a member or trying, a shower in the drop of a hat!
My only problem with baby showers is when someone has 3+ kids and wants a shower Every Time! Ugh! Makes me think you are being greedy!
Sorry so long, but also: I was raised by a 15 year old single mom, it wasn't the easiest or best thing to do in my opinion! I wished I would have been given up to a loving family, but my mom was not the best mom either! It's all different per situation!
10:15 again, to clarify, when I say EVERYONE I mean, I mean woman! EVERY WOMAN
First of all I am so sad about the mean language here.
I think that with the pervasive acceptance of abortion in our society, we should honor women who make bad choices and get pregnant but CHOOSE TO GIVE THEIR BABIES LIFE. That is a pretty big deal, since 50% of unplanned pregnancies end in abortion.
So, it's not a matter of whether you want to condone the women's actions. The issue is a LIFE has been created and the church can celebrate that and pray that the baby will grow to know the Lord or we can keep being petty and with our accusations push more girls into quiet abortions.
To 10:15 am -----
You said your old church would not throw them showers unless they are someone special........
I'm curious why YOU didn't throw them a shower then?
I have thrown showers for people I've only met once or twice at church, you don't have to be special to throw a shower.
I hope I don't sound rude, but I was just curious :)
6:15 and the others who don't agree -
Do you think its wrong to throw a baby shower for a mom whos husband died (after she got pg) and she has chosen to keep the baby, and not give it up for adoption? p
OF Course throw her a shower! Why would you not! She loved her husband is probably very sad and needs a little pick me up. Raising a baby is hard whether you are married or not! Get over yourselves. If you are married, count your blessings. If you know someone that's pregnant and not married, reach out to them! It's the little things in life that people do that mean the most!
You thinking about getting preggers and knocking your hubby out of the picture? Wanting to make sure you get that shower? Why would you ask that question? It's sad!
10:53 You're not being rude, I did throw them a shower, but it had to be at my house and with mostly my friends, no Christian women would attend. I hated it for them. It was a sinful act and despite them getting married, they couldn't overlook it. But the elder's kid got a shower, her boyfriend cheated on her and made it all ok! That church has some problems and I tried to make a difference but for the sake of my family we moved on after many years of struggles! The teen couple are still married 5 years later and attend with us. I saw the elder's daughter and she's finally married, but had another kid in between that!
I have not read through the other comments, but I beleive that yes the church should help.
If we are going to be against abortionthen we need to do everthing we can to help the baby.
Anybody else remember all the babies born after 9-11? I was so glad to see companies coming and helping them with diapers, formula and baby gear! We need to be more like God's little helpers instead of hinder's sp? in people's times of need, no matter what their need. :) These moms didn't ask to lose their husbands and be put in this situation.
I like 8:14's comment. Oh if you could've been there when we made our kids! You would not be throwing us a party. LOL! Ha, ha, ha!
It's pretty bad to be against abortion but refuse to help support and care for babies whose mom's chose life instead of death for them!
dear 6:15--i'm still laying here waiting for you to throw the first stone at me.
here is what you said above "Sorry, but I still think we shouldn't be celebrating a sin. No, the baby isn't a sin, I am talking about the premarital sex."
i don't know anyone who walks around a church celebrating their sin. to read that you feel people do this only goes to show that you need to realize a few things about yourself possibly. i am not here to tell you you're wrong and i'm right. i'm am here to suggest that maybe you and i can both learn to forgive. to see that you think the church is allowing this shows me your heart is hardened. you are comfortable in your seat pointing out what is wrong with everyone else but not afraid to admit of your own wrong doings.
why do i suggest this? because i've been there and done that. it's not a healthy place to be in. i was once quick to point out and assume what others are doing is wrong, or that the church was wrong/weird in choosing to go about a certain situation. i get the feeling that you could possibly fit into this category if you feel a baby shower is celebrating the sin of the unwed mother.
how do you feel about all the ladies who show up to celebrate this sin?
Sorry, but I still think we shouldn't be celebrating a sin. No, the baby isn't a sin, I am talking about the premarital sex.
Jesus would be right in the middle of both baby showers if men were invited!
6:15 here once a again. You ladies are going way over board. My problem is with the celebrating and throwing a big party. I NEVER said we shouldn't be there to help and love the mom and baby. I am all for loving and supporting and making sure the baby is taken care of. I am however, not for throwing a party and pretending that things are great that the choice she made of denying the kid a father (no, of course I not in favor of abortion, so drop that) is a great one and "whatever feels good" is great. What kind of message are we sending other girls? That it really isn't important if you are married or not??? Most of you guys probably know me, but don't worry, I am not going to make a huge deal if one of you unmarried ladies goes out and gets knocked up because you "wanted something to love you", but I will quietly not be attending your shower and if someone asks, I will just say I am unable to attend. I will however make sure you have food and other needed things after the baby comes.
6:15, men read this blog too. They even comment.
Relevance?
OH....the "Ladies" reference...well most men who read this don't go overboard and judgmental, like us lovely ladies...sometimes I wish I were a man.
Okay, dad's are vital but if a baby has a grandparent, uncles, other males in their family, it can be just the same. There are many single mom's who ended up being single by death or divorce. This could be making it sound like their child is going to have a crappy future by not having a father. If that mom is a great mom with great support, this child can be just as well off as it would be with a father in its life. Besides...a father could be in his future down the road. Let God be his powerful self and live in the lives of these teens and children. He will take care of them...do you have no faith?
While I would be an advocate of an unmarried woman adopting, I can't judge them for going to a sperm bank. No one knows what it is like to be in that situation unless you are there. If I was infertile or never met the right guy and my time was almost up, I may want a baby too. I would probably adopt because I love the feeling of saving a baby already made rather than making one but I have one so it's easy for me to say what I would do. Other's may feel they won't be able to connect or love a baby that isn't from them. Everyone is made differently and I can't judge someone for feeling differently than me.
I think we should ask the teen if she would like a shower or collect money and stay low key. We should deffinitely let her know we care and are here for her. Everyone who is thrown a shower has sinned just as much as this teen??? Are we aloud to ask "have you gossiped today, coveted someone's possessions, told a lie?...oh you have...sorry we can't throw you a shower!!!??" Sounds crazy...but IT'S THE SAME THING!!
Also, I was a unwed teen who did marry the father but we had many struggles to go through. I believe it would have been much better if we would have waited until we were ready instead of just marrying. Starting a marriage is hard enough. It's magnified when you are pregnant (with a sick pregnancy) and still trying to finish school. I was a Christian but messed up. I am not perfect but I knew I could handle having a baby. I made myself grow up fast and now I'm getting ready to speak at a true love waits program. I was given a shower and was so glad many people reached out to us and tried to make us feel as "normal" as possible. We were already humiliated...we didn't need more.
You all will be judged by how you judge others. Even by not attending. On judgement day I sure hope Christ doesn't "not attend" when your up!
Um last I knew church was a place where sinners could come and "celebrate" the fact that we are forgiven and can move on with life. Isn't that kind of the same as a baby shower for an unwed mother?!
We have to remember we have all sinned and fallen short and our sins are just as bad as premarital sex but Jesus is there for us and wants us to come to his party and celebrate ever week. No we aren't celebrating our sin or saying it was okay.
Oh, I forget to say...
Attending is not saying what they did was okay. It is saying they are loved and you care about them. Let them know you are here for them and that Christ still loves them. Encourage bible class, CWBS, etc. Feel free to confront them if you feel they are going down a sinfilled route again or about to make a big mistake. Be involved...don't be silent as if they were a leper
maybe 6:15 feels like the knocked up lady is continuing to sin by keeping a dad out of the life of the baby and by throwing a shower we are saying it is okay to keep doing what you are doing. and that is why she doesn't want to attend.
Also, what kind of comment is that a dad can be replaced by some other male. Think before you type, an uncle is not the same as a dad. I don't think anyone here thinks that if a kid is born without a dad that their life is doomed to suck, they can possibly have a good life, I don't know, but I do believe that a Dad is important and for those who think they aren't and can be easily replaced, don't tell your husbands that.
Some kids are born into families with Dads and thier lives suck. Some Dads suck, just like some Moms suck.
This is kind of related sort of-
Do you all go to weddings of couples who lived together before marriage?
6:15 -- I think the reason why everyone is so livid about your comment is because you called it "stupidness" and "selfishness".
First of all, not all moms have the choice to give the baby up for adoption. In some cases the father won't allow it, so she has to choose between raising the baby or letting the father take the baby. (And if the father is a scumbag.... she'll make the right choice to keep it.)
Also some moms were raped. Not treating the baby like other babies would be like rubbing salt in the wound.
6:15 here, so how is the knocked up girl's behavior not stupid and not selfish?? Why do I have to be PC? I have done stupid and selfish acts, not saying I haven't.
Also, on the weddings questions. I would attend the wedding because they are attempting to make things right in getting married. Would I think it was tacky throwing a "traditonal wedding" when they didn't do things traditonally? Yes. And if my kids decide to shack up before they get married, they better not expect me to pay for the wedding, if they want to follow that tradition of parents paying, they need to follow the tradition of not shacking up. Go ahead, attack me for that.
4:48, all mom's do have the right to give up their child. You can go to court and get sole 'custody' of your unborn baby and have the rights to place them up for adoption. Also being raped doesn't force you to keep the baby or give it up.
It's all up to you! You make your life what you want it to be.
If you are a pregnant teen, there are ways you can keep your baby and still do well for yourself. It won't be easy, but it will be worth it to be able to provide for you and your child! It's not the same as the 'ideal' home, but it works! I feel so bad if any pregnant teens or unwed mothers are reading this! Some should be VERY ashamed!!
5:00 I think it may be time for you to close your mouth, take a good look at yourself, deal with your problems, then you can cast stones! I think you need to worry about yourself and stop judging!
I think it's ok for someone at the church to host a shower for an unwed pregnant girl. The girl already feels like everyone is judging her because of her sin, is embarrassed, so this is something that helps a lot. After the point where she is pregnant, she has to grow up quickly in order to accept the fact that she has a responsibility to the child now, so if she doesn't choose to give the baby up for adoption, she chooses to mature quickly and keep the baby and do the best she can for it. At that point, she is making the best of her situation. What's done is done and so she has to do what she thinks would be best. The person who steps up and has a shower for her has a huge impact on this girl's life! She will always be remembered! Also, the youth minister who goes out of his way to make sure she's ok has a huge impact also! I know -- and will remember them forever!
6:01 PM -------You are incorrect by saying that all moms have the opportunity to give up their child.
Ask any family law atty for advice.
10:37, I don't need to ask an attorney. I am one! I have done this only two times, and it was really quite easy.
3:22- I'm the one that said that and I personally think I had a great comment! I'm by no means saying dad's are pointless. Of course that is the best and what God intended, but I have a nephew who has a much better uncle (my hubby) than his father.
I'm saying GOD CAN WORK THROUGH EVERY SITUATION AND MAKE IT TURN OUT WONDERFUL. He can provide a male role model other than his father. His father can still even be very much involved in his life without living with the guy. I said this point out that just marrying the father is not always what is best for that child and that family. Therefore its not always selfish keeping a child and not marrying right away. It could end up being more heartache later on. Voice your opinion but don't attack mine.
Have the shower, you are celebrating the life of a new human being, not celebrating how the baby arrived. Every child is a miracle!!
As far as adopting as a single person, I have not done a lot of research but I have done a little, they prefer married couples to take the babies. Leaving the sperm bank as your option.
To the previous poster, why not look at adopting older "unadoptable" kids??? There are lots of other options than a sperm bank.
I don't think that it matters how whoever had the baby. At the point you are talking, the baby about to be here, you are not condoning one thing or another, you are just loving on and providing for a baby. A baby that has had no say as to the family situation it was born into. If the mother is alone and keeping the baby, how much more would she profit from the outpouring of love. An unwed teenage mother has plenty of consequence ahead of her. It dramatically alters their life choices and opportunities. Think of the things you were able to enjoy in your college days, the fun I wouldn't trade for the world, the freedom to come and go as you please. Make them feel special for a day. I promise, there will be enough consequence in their life to encourage others to not seek that path.
11:37 ------ You are definitely NOT telling the truth! Or perhaps you really believe it, and are just misinformed.
I used to do work with adoptions (out of foster care) and nearly ALL of my adoptive parents were SINGLE. A few were gay couples (well only one of the parents in the gay coupleslegally adopted) but nearly ALL were SINGLE. I don't know the stats, but I think that most adoptions out of foster care are by single parents. Or at least when I worked there.
So, do your research and hopefully you'll qualify to adopt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's a link to check out: www.adoptuskids.org
NEVER EVER use that excuse again for going to a sperm bank okay! It is an insult to adoptable children!
I want to add that there are alot of healthy (and yes, even white) kids who are adoptable but not listed on the adouptuskids.org website. I don't think most agencies used the site.
Some don't like adopting out of foster care because they are usually older. Some want to start fresh out of the womb. It's their choice. It's easy for those who've had kids, tell those who can't, to go save a child out of foster care. If they want to do a sperm bank that is their choice. Show me the verse in the bible that says otherwise. I would totally encourage helping get kids out of foster care but if someone wants at least one of their own...I say have fun but not as much fun as octomom please!!
this was a hot one!
Yes, and I didn't think it would be.
Some people on here seem to be Dr. Laura mouthpieces. Interesting.
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