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This is an experiment to see how honest people can be if they don't have to identify themselves. Some silly, some deep, but all require honesty.
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86 comments:
if you can die for your country, then you can drink
Yes. I grew up in a country where the drinking age was 18 and it didn't mean that kids were running around and drinking any more than their American counterparts. It meant that they weren't having to HIDE it as much, so they ended up with healthier attitudes toward drinking. Kids are going to drink, no matter what the "official" age is. The question is do you want to know about it or not?
No.
It would be interesting to see what would happen if the age was lowered. While I agree somewhat with the previous posts, I also think that, for a while anyway, there would be some interesting things happening. Would the number of dui's rise? Or the number of alcohol related car wrecks? Would alcoholism be a bigger problem? Something to think about.
I was going to type what the first person did. If you can make the decision to join the military and go off to war, if the legal system sees you as an adult then you should be able to drink.
trust me 18 year olds that want to drink are already even with the drinking age at 21. I was married at 19 to a 21 year old if i wanted to drink he got it for me and most 18 year olds know someone who is 21 that will buy it for them i promise you... so why not lower it the age has nothing to do with drinking if someone wants to do it they will this is the samething as saying that if you give them condoms your saying sex is okay thats just not true... the ones that want to do it are doing it anyway!
NO!!!
Are the laws any tuffer on an 18 year old drinking and driving than a 21 year old?
(Just a question)
Any teen/chid that wants to drink is.
If you have alochol in your house you are responsibe for it and what happens to those that drink it.
If 21 year olds are buying it for 18 year olds, won't lowering the age just make it easier for 18 year olds to buy it for 15 year olds?
I'm anti-drinking to begin with...but that is neither here nor there. I do think that if that is something someone is going to choose to do, they need to do it responsibly and I know very few 18 year olds (and 21 year olds actually) that do much responsibly. I've heard arguments that the only reason kids drink is because they view it as forbidden and if it wasn't forbidden, they would be more responsible about it. I don't buy that for a minute. You could make the legal age 16 and you would still have children younger drinking because it was "forbidden" and all you would be doing it making it easier for them to get access too.
As for the argument about the military...the difference when the military gives an 18 year old a gun, they train them to use it properly. Lowering the age is just like giving them a loaded weapon without any training and saying "go have fun."
By the way, I had a sibling who was a CHILD and killed by a drunk driver back when the drinking age used to be 18.
I think it should be 18. I think bad things are going to happen no matter what laws we have. Just because there are drunk drivers out there doesn't make a difference whether the law is 18 or 21. I think we need to lower the age AND I think we need to start treating our children like they are older and stop babying them.
It doesn't matter what the law says, kids/teenagers/young adults are going to drink. And yes, that means the 15 year olds.
I think the law set at 21 is good, but I agree with many of the other posters. I think an 18 year old might not be ready for the responsibility that comes along with drinking. However, I'm pretty sure most 21 year olds aren't ready for the responsibility either.
The problem with being able to go to war but not drink is that these kids are seeing stuff, we've never dreamed of seeing. Very graphic, horrific and will stay with them forever! We put them through that and when they get home they can't have a drink? It should definitely be lowered. That is just wrong to expect so much from them and turn around and treat them like a child! It has nothing to do with the guns.
I was married and had 2 kids(and was pregnant) by the time I could drink! It's a law that makes NO sense! If you can get married, smoke, vote and go to war at 18, then either up those age limits or lower the drinking age limit!
I'm also for making the law stricter if you get caught! No more slap on the hands the first time!?!
I think that some 30 plus year olds don't handle the reponsiblity of drinking.
8:49, isn't that what happens to Everyone when they turn 21? Here's your loaded weapon, go have fun! I don't know Anyone that drinks responsibly. Why do people drink at any age?!?
Alcohol and Responsible are two words that DO NOT go together!
It flies all over me to see a group having drinks at a restaraunt. Maybe only two or three drinks, but then they all go get in their cars and drive home! Why? Why do that? You can have just as much fun w/o drinking!
It's safer!
The Law should be changed to 25 if they are going to go for more responsible age, 18 isn't it, 21 is not it either though!
If you don't know anyone who drinks responsibly, then you know the wrong people. I have ONE drink a year, MAYBE, at New Year's Eve. Other than that, nada. Isn't that responsible drinking?
And if you're so upset by people sitting and drinking at restaurants, when why don't you go up and say something? Otherwise, you're harboring bitterness, and that's just as bad for you as a couple of drinks.
I can't stand the argument "They are going to do it anyways...", are you the type that are going to let your kids drink and do drugs at home since "they are going to it and I want to be safe."?
Hey, you know what we think kids are responsible enough to drive at 16 so let's just lower the drinking age to 16. I mean if they can handle a car why not alcohol??
Come on, I thinking signing up to defend our country and drinking are 2 totally different things!!
I don't drink and none of my friends do either!
But, My dad is an alocoholic, my sister drinks like crazy, all of my family likes to have '1 drink' and when there WAS an emergency, I couldn't call any of them bc of they had something to drink and weren't 'all' there! Why would you EVER want to be buzzed or have just a little too much that you couldn't be there for your family? Why do it in the first place? Once a year, you think that's responsible? Well, while your layed up drunk or even just buzzed, what if your child chokes and you can't rush them to the ER bc you decided to have a few drinks?!? Ya a freak thing, but it happens! It happened to me, but thank God I don't drink at all and could be there for my kid! More than I could say for the rest of my family!
I would love to carry a photo album with a picture of my brother at age 10 when he was killed by a drunk driver! A picture of the car! A picture of so many others killed bc someone wanted to drink and drive! I would LOVE to show that to everyone that orders a drink in a restaraunt! Yes! You can say I harbor bitterness! If this was an issue close to your heart, maybe you'd think twice before ordering a drink!?!
8:28 - You may need to lay off the alcohol yourself...it's 'tougher' not 'tuffer'. It's way too early in the morning to drink...put it down the bottle and pick up a dictionary.
I think it should stay at 21.
Yes, the age should be lowered. If you can put your life on the line, then you should be able to drink. But then again, I believe that if my son has to register for the service when he's 18, I think your daughter should have to also!
11:11 ... I didn't say I drink once a year. I said I have ONE DRINK a year, MAYBE. I won't be incapacitated if there's a freak thing, as you say.
I can see this is a sore issue for you, and I'm sorry I aggravated the hurt. I promise you that I will never drive drunk, or even become drunk, the same commitment I have made to God, myself, and my family.
1:17, I disagree with making females register for selective service although I am suprised they haven't made girls do it, in this ultra-feminazi society.
11:11...
You seriously think that none of your friends drink?? That is a little naive, don't you think.
Sarah, please considering posting a question about how many of your readers actually enjoy the occasional beverage. And more importantly, what denomination they are affiliated with. I think that some people might be surprised at how many CoC'ers do.
ONE drink does not make you drunk.
I know 12 year olds who've had kids. So, if their old enough to have a baby, shouldn't they be old enough to drink?
Canada's legal age is 18.
Makes sense to me.
jesus had wine at a wedding and made more for every one to celebrate with...are you calling him irresponsible?
I drink alcohol, I attend a church of christ and I have never been drunk!!
I too drink alcohol, I attend a church of christ and I have never been drunk!!
I think the important thing is for parents to teach their kids about drinking, and how it effect others. I think just telling them is wrong does no good. I'm not saying it will help, but it couldn't do any harm.
I don't know if the age needs to be changed or not, but I'm not excited at the thought of my kid drinking at any age. However, I'm not stupid enough to think that my kid will never have a drink.
I wonder who is posting this comment! I'm c of c and think it's okay to order a strawberry daq occasionally! I would totally be able to go to the ER for my child after that.
I am ashamed of all you 'C of C'! Is that not what is preached in your congregations that drinking is wrong? I am C of C and Do Not drink and I am friends with a lot of our congregation that don't either. I just can't believe there are so many of you that just don't care.
As far as the question: I can see it both ways. I guess if you can sign up for the service you should be able to have a drink. So I guess it should be 18.
I think it is fine to have a drink. I have A drink a couple times a week and have NEVER been drunk. I have never been in a position that I couldn't have helped a family member or taken care of my children. They don't preach against drinking in our church. All things in moderation is what is preached.
I haven't read all the responses but I think this is called "divvying down defiance." You can't change the wrong behavior therefore let's say the behavior isn't wrong. And that's not a good reason to do anything.
EXACTLY!
7:24 -- just because it's preached in the congregation doesn't mean that everyone follows it. I mean, aren't we allowed to read the Bible and think for ourselves?
I'm "CofC" too, and I am fully able to read the same Bible my preacher reads and decide if he's telling the truth or if he's full of it. I don't swallow it wholesale, just because someone told me.
1 Timothy 5:23(New International Version)
23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
Straight out of the New Testament!!!
Why drink if your not going to get drunk??? That was always the purpose of it when I did it. Not because it taste good. It's more to fit in and get a buzz. So that's why I think it's a bad idea to do it. And let's not forget the whole "stumbling block" thing. That's great if you feel like you are responsible enought to handle it, but I promise you there are many who see you do it and know you do it that cannot handle it themselves.
Thank You 11:06 #2
11:06 #1
Now the argument, Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach’s sake. Yes, Paul told Timothy, "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your often infirmities." 1 Timothy 5:23 This text clearly implies that Timothy did not drink any wine before this time. The recommendation by Paul was strictly medicinal, so to quote the advice of Paul to Timothy to justify drinking is to distort the intent of the passage! Again because the word "wine" is used many people jump to the conclusion it is fermented, when in fact Paul and the rest of Scripture have already warned against the use of fermented wine.
Have you ever heard of the tyranny of the weaker brother?
We absolutely do need to be sensitive to people who struggle.
However, that does not mean that I can't have wine with an occasional meal, or go to the beer school program when my family visits a Busch Gardens park like Sea World.
Am I flaunting this? Of course not. But we become like the Pharisees when we take the guidelines given to us by God and impose even greater limits on ourselves.
What really matters is the heart. The church should be preaching the Bible and the difficult heart matters, rather than making arbitrary rules that have little, if any, value, except to make us more judgmental and hypocritical.
9:02 cracks me up. Everything in moderation. That's what's preached> A Little fornication on Monday night. Maybe a Little drunkeness on Tuesday night. Crap it's Wednesday, better go ask for Grace! Thursday maybe a Little adultery. Friday night a Little lying. Saturday night a Little coveting. Sunday a good dose of Grace! Are you seriously saying that a little alcohol in moderation is ok. It's like arguing that a white lie isn't a lie!
12:30 when did the Bible change and say we need to take it easy on the weak and dance around them as to not step on any toes!?! The Bible is FIRM in the word! We have strict guidelines to follow. We also have a straight and narrow gate to fit through in the end. Nothing wonderful is obtained easily!
12:33, that's funny. I actually know a few people that are that way!
12:24 Do you think that when Jesus urned the water to wine for the wedding feast that it was not alcoholic? Why would sinless Jesus turn water to wine if wine were not allowed? It was allowed, and this idea that it wasn't fermented does not fit contextually or culturally.
Think about elder qualifications, that an elder should not be given to much wine. That assumes that there is no prohibition of alcohol going on, but the warning is clear: constant drunkenness (or habitual drunkenness) would disqualify someone from consideration for eldership.
I disagree with your argument that "...in fact Paul and the rest of Scripture have already warned us against the use of fermented wine." That's simply not a fact. The warning is against drunkenness.
The person in charge of the wedding party remarked, after he had tasted the wine, "…you have kept the good wine until now." Good wine was fresh grape juice, the fermented grape juice was considered inferior. Also Jesus would know about Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (being God as well as man), and would not give alcohol to a wedding party, which probably included several pregnant women. No, Jesus did NOT make a fermented wine at this wedding. What He did do was to give a wedding gift of at least 120 gallons of fresh grape juice.
God’s Word is consistent, it does not tell us not to drink fermented wine in one part of the Bible and in another part only to drink a little alcohol. Here are three types of New Testament references that people think are saying it is all right to drink a little fermented wine, beer, etc. First, Ephesians 5:18, in some versions the word "excess" is used. The New King James Version more accurately uses the word "dissipation" (meaning intemperance or the opposite of temperance-which is total abstinence from alcoholic liquors).
Second, in other references such as 1 Timothy 3:2,3 and Titus 1:7, we have the phrase, "not given to wine" this is taken by some to mean, "not to be addicted" to alcohol. But in reality the Greek word used here is, "mee-paroinon", literally, not at, by near, or with wine (alcohol). According to Paul, total abstinence is an indispensable qualification for a pastor. (See Bible Wines William Patton)
The third type of reference that has caused confusion to some, are the ones like 1 Timothy 3:8 and Titus 2:3…"not given to much wine". In order to understand these verses we will need to understand a popular vice of that time. That was to drink a lot of unfermented wine. They used various methods to promote thirst. These drinkers might continue drinking all night at their feasts. Excessive drinking, even of non-alcoholic drinks corresponded to gluttony-the excessive use of food. Paul is simply guarding the deacons against a vice of the day. It would be similar in our day to "bulimia" (eating or drinking to the point of being gorged and then vomiting). This is unbecoming behavior for a Christian in any age!
About sixty percent of all traffic accidents and seventy percent of all murders are alcohol related. Then there is the untold domestic violence it has caused. Proverbs 20:1, warns, "Wine is a mocker, intoxicating drink (beer) arouses fighting, whoever is led astray by it is not wise!"
12:53 you might add that abstinence in many cases is GOOD!
God does not teach us to practice evil in moderation.
I agree with 12:33 and yes, I also know a few of those! One is a grandmother that needs a drink before she can be around her grandchildren for very long! Obviously one or two drinks (not drunkeness) dulls the senses. I'd consider that a form of drunkeness!
12:50 -- I think it's important that you cite sources for your claims about fermented and unfermented grape juice, and Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Since what you said was obviously extra-Biblical, you need to back it up with extra-Biblical authority, or better yet ACTUAL Biblical authority.
But your statements don't make sense when taken in the context of other Bible passages, like Proverbs 20:1, which says "Wine is a mocker, and beer a brawler. Whoever is led astray by them is not wise."
Is Solomon really saying that "grape juice is a mocker"? Really? I can be led astray by fresh grape juice?
Your statements, if we're being consistent, have to twist Solomon's words to mean "fresh grape juice." Come on. So what this means is that Jesus produced "the good stuff" -- actual wine. Other places in scripture, fresh grape juice is called "fruit of the vine," or "the cup." That is a more consitent way to interpret.
What do you do with Proverbs 31:6 and 7? "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more."
Oh, wait -- we're going to give fresh grape juice to those who are in anguish so they'll forget their misery. It doesn't work, doesn't fit.
Stop trying to make the Bible fit your own preconcieved notion of what is and isn't evil. Wine is not evil. Beer is not evil. Allowing them to lead you astray is at least unwise, according to scripture. And what the Bible IS clear about is that drunkenness is a sin, NOT drinking alcohol.
And I'll agree with 12:30 on this, that placing too many regulations on consumption of alcolhol is REALLY pharisaical.
You're right, 1:02. We are not suppose to practice evil in moderation. But we can DRINK in moderation, and not be practicing evil. To call drinking alcohol "evil" you are going to have to prove that it is evil with a place in the Bible that SAYS it is evil.
I like the authority kick that 3:43 is on ...... backup your statements with something.
You all need to go visit our christian brothern in Italy. Wine is enjoyed daily. "Good" wine is not Welch's juice.
C of C and do drink wine. Never been drunk.
Have taken some medicine that would cause me to not to be "reponsible".
3:43 I think you need to study the original Greek! That's exactly where I am getting this from. Can you keep up or are you a little slow from your wine ;)
These sound like convincing arguments until you understand that the main Hebrew word for "wine" (yayin) or the main Greek word (oinos) can refer to a fermented or unfermented drink. The wine spoken of in the Bible is a generic term. The context in each case indicates whether it was speaking of fermented wine or not.
So to assume that every time the Bible uses the word "wine"-it is speaking about a fermented drink is not looking at the facts! Isaiah 65:8 says, "Thus says the LORD: As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one says, 'Do not destroy it for a blessing is in it..." Here the grape juice in the cluster is called 'wine' (tirosh). In Isaiah 16:10 says, "…no treaders will tread out wine in their presses…" As soon as the juice was pressed out of the grapes it was called wine. But in Genesis 9:21 it is clear that fermented wine is what Noah drank to get drunk on. (It is well to note, however, how it got him and his son Ham into trouble drinking it!)
This should be enough to prove that the word 'wine' is a generic term in our Bibles!
I'm going to have to agree with 1:02. One drink might make you a little buzzed, two a little more buzzed, three a little closer to drunk. You don't stay at 0 until you've had 5 beers and then all of a sudden bal jump to .08! It's a process. "Moderately Drunk" I like that term! If you have one drink, get pulled over, smell alcohol on you, of course you are going to have to do a breathalizer! Why? Bc it's WRONG!?!
Well it's a law. It's wrong to break a law of the land. And even then you have to be at a certain level to get arrested.
They might let you call an elder or your minister to come give you a ride home.
If I drank some wine with dinner, I would as easily do that with elders and their wives over for dinner as not.
I could in good conscience drink a glass in their presence. If I couldn't, then that would tell of a problem!
4:48, I'm glad I'm not a member of your congregation. Every CofC that I have Ever been to preaches it is WRONG!?! I won't back down on it either. I would rather walk the straight and narrow way than to worry about whether I was really sinning or not! I'll continue to play it safe!
That's great, 4:06. But your translations don't identify which one is the one Jesus used in the water-to-fresh-grape-juice miracle. If "oinos" is generic, there should be some hint in context, as you say, to indicate which one is being used.
The context I see there is that of a wedding feast (where people usually drink NOT fresh grape juice BUT the fermented stuff), and there's the word "methusthosin" in the same sentence (John 2:10), which is about normal wedding guests being .... wait for it .... drunk! With what? Fresh grape juice?
Please explain. I'm willing to be convinced with evidence. It's just that the "fresh grape juice" argument doesn't seem to fit the setting or the context of the language.
5:19 I would love to have you as a part of my local church. I would hope that we would sharpen each other together.
We have godly elders who would welcome you as a grace-given child of God, just as they have welcomed my family and me.
It is good to walk confidently before God, with confidence that comes from His much-needed grace.
8:48 Thank You! We have been searching for a solid congregation to attend but everywhere seems to be so liberal anymore. I feel like the only shining light in a sea of false teachers. I really do appreciate the invitation :)
Just curious if you attend a CofC or something different?
Thank You
After I had 2 glasses of wine, this whole discussion made a lot more sense to me. I would recommend this to many of you as well.
After all, Luther said that you should never discuss theology until you've had 2 beers.
(Now, feel free to comment how Luther wasn't a Christian.)
5:27 I'm curious as to WHY? you drink? There is no commandment telling us to specifically not have one drink, but what happens if the drinking limit is lowered to the equivalent of your one drink? Are you guilty of drunkeness then? I'd just love to know why? What do you think is meant in Galatians 5:21, drunkeness...and such like?! Such Like, meaning... of the same nature... ;)
The whole situation about Fetal Alcohol syndrome and pregnant women at the wedding. WHAT!? I don't think we can draw conclusions from those assumptions.
Just for the record. I have a friend who is a pediatrician and C of C. She encouraged me to have a glass of wine on and off through pregnancy and guess what I saw her do it too. No problems - small amounts of alcohol will never reach the baby. She said she tells her clients no drinking because she wouldn't want them to drink too much so it is just easier to tell them not to drink anything. Oh and she is married to a OB. This is not to condone drinking while pregnant just to point out that you can't assume the wine was grape juice just because there were pregnant women there.
This whole thing is wearing me out. I have grown up C of C and have NEVER heard a sermon on not drinking AT ALL. Drunkeness has always been a sin but I wan't bible verses saying not to drink any alcohol EVER. Where is it? Thou shall not murder, commit adultry, etc. Sermon on the mount says what is a sin and he never says "but I tell you, don't even get close to alcohol bottle!"
It seems to me that many of us who grew up C of C would be familiar with the attacks on the holier-than-thou attitude of the C of C as a whole (even though the churches are independent, I'm talking about trends over the group).
This topic leads us to an example of this attitude. If your conscience does not allow you to have a glass of wine (fermented), then please do not. It would be sinful for you to go against your conscience. HOWEVER, please do not judge your brother whose conscience allows them to do that.
We should not be judging each other or imposing man-made standards. God searches each one of us and knows our hearts intimately.
We need to share the grace that has been given to us, and if we are walking in fear that we are sinning or might be, then we are not focused on this grace. Obviously, I am not saying that we continue in sin. But I am saying that I think God has given us a lot more freedom than we take hold of. Christ does not call us to a half life, he calls us to an abundant life. That would be one that does not shrink in fear or focus on splinters in other people's eyes. That would be one that is overflowing with grace and love, an extension and reflection of the amazing blessings that we have been given.
9:55 -- In answer to the question WHY? I drink ONE drink, MAYBE, once a year. It's in the spirit of celebration and it's because, yes, I enjoy the flavor of the ONE kind of drink that I drink. But that's not even the point, here.
The point of the discussion has become whether it is okay for Christians to take a drink. We can all agree that drunkenness in the Christian is forbidden by precept and principle. But people here are trying to make the scriptures avow the inherent evil of alcohol, which they clearly DO NOT.
You said: "... but what happens if the drinking limit is lowered to the equivalent of your one drink? Are you guilty of drunkeness then?"
Hmmm, no. Legal drinking limit is irrelevant in light of scripture, because laws change, when God's Word does not.
As for Galatians 5, consider CONTEXT, as 4:06 pointed out. The CONTEXT of that chapter is freedom, and not letting someone put a burden on us that Christ has not. The more immediate context of the verse you partially quoted is the acts of the sinful nature. "And the like" refers to the ENTIRE list of sins -- sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, and orgies." AND THE LIKE doesn't reach back to just drunkenness, as you try to make it. But as to that, it's clearly not talking about having one drink, but other things you could do to produce a drunken-like state, such as hallucinogens or other drugs. AND THE LIKE could also refer to other forms of rage or orgies or anything else in the list.
But you have your own applications of scripture, which you must have to stand before God with a clear conscience. Just stop trying to twist the scriptures to make them say what you already think.
10:48 - AMEN!!!! That was said perfectly. It is all about your conscience. That is actually in the bible I believe, but don't know the verse. If you feel something is wrong and do it anyway, then you have sinned. Having one sip of alochol would be a sin to some probably. For me, it is not and trying to convince of that is CRAZY!! It won't work!
June 5 -- 9:05 a.m. You are incorrect about alcohol consumption during pregnancy. The truth (backed up by research) is that we do not know exactly how much alcohol it takes to produce Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorders (FASD...formerly called Fetal Alcohol Syndrome) and we do know that FASD is a disorder on a contiuum meaning that some children are born with mild symptoms and may not be easy to recognize that they are FASD while others have more significant symptoms. Many doctors (even OBs) are unaware of the significant consequences of alcohol use during pregnancy and what new research may show about this.
Please, please, please DO NOT drink any amount of alcohol while pregnant. You may very well cause irreversable damage to your unborn child.
The way that I look at it is that there is ONE word of God, One way to live and One way to Heaven. I believe there is One 'perfect' type of Christian and We are supossed to strive to fit that. I don't believe God gives us free range to do whatever bc in the end we'll have Grace!
I just don't see how you can believe there is a 'limit' on your alcohol. God doesn't want you to commit adultery- not even in your heart! I don't believe God would want you to have a little alcohol when he clearly states not to get drunk. Is that not a lot the same as adultery- not even a little!?! I mentioned the limit bc how do you measure drunk? Your senses are dulled when drinking!
How are we to be good examples to our children and our peers when we are sitting back with our glass of alcohol? Moderately drunk...
You believe your way. I'm sure there are tons of drunks in Hell.
For more information on alcohol use while pregnant, please see what the CDC says, "no known safe amount of alcohol consumption."
http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fas/
Some of you are REALLY clinging to the bottle instead of your Bibles! If someone says it is wrong, would you not want to study and make sure you aren't doing something wrong? I want to play it safe, so I choose to just stay away from it. But, I also don't wear bikinis and shorty shorts! The Bible doesn't tell me not to, but I just don't want to tempt anyone or be a stumbling block as far as adultery and fornication is concerned! I hope I don't know any of you personally, I'm so ready to delete this blog from my faves. You all are not trying to be understanding and Christian like!
Ummm, I would be happy to know any of you personally. How does iron sharpen iron without sparks?
I am 10:48. I am not a drinker. But that is not the point. But PLEASE show me how anything I said in that post is not understanding and not Christian like.
We really have to love each other, and judging each other has no place in a true Christian's heart. I always wonder how surprised we will be when we get to heaven at who is there, and I hope that I will always be amazed at my own standing before God.
If this conversation is bothering you so much, I sincerely encourage you to study it and discuss it with elders, and the whole thing, not just the alcohol question. And thank God for the Holy Spirit that convicts us, and keep following his leading.
Because someone doesn't agree with you they aren't being Christ like? I've been reading this question and haven't commented on it thus far.
I think that this is one of those topics that Satan uses to tear the family apart. It's clear that we should be drunk. It says that all through the Bible. Some people think that means no alcohol whatsoever, and some think that it means in moderation is ok.
We all have a different history and some topics we are very passionate about. We aren't all going to agree with each other, but we can at least listen and talk with one another with compassion.
I personally feel like this is one of those topics that tear people apart instead of bring them together. Kind of like having instruments during worship. There is no cut and dry answer to those questions. If you don't think you should drink then don't. If you think it's ok to have a drink now and then, then do it. Just don't tear people apart because they don't agree with you.
Do you really think it's a salvation issue?
Sorry! It's clear that we SHOULD NOT be drunk! Ha...
Maybe I should read more carefully before hitting publish!
I am amazed at how laid back everyone is on this issue. I don't know why I'm amazed, reading the rest of the post's goes to show what happens when you give someone an inch! Cheating on spouses, premarital sex, quick to judge, the list could go on FOREVER! I'm not saying this ALL stems from alcohol, it stems from division! How can we expect self discipline or self respect from our children when we can't even agree on a Christian Standard?!? And YES, I believe there is a strict Christian Standard!
Okay, Mr./Ms. Strict Christian Standard ...
Who makes it? Who gets to be the one to draw the line? You? Not so much, I think.
So you're going to answer "God," or "Jesus" or "The Bible" -- fine. I agree. It's just that we see on these discussions that there are a variety of ways to understand the Scriptures.
So which one is the "correct" one?
Please, enlighten me about the "strict Christian Standard" you speak of.
Yes! The Bible tells us strictly how to be! If you read and diligently study your Bible you will see EXACTLY how to understand it! There is but ONE interpretation of the Bible, not many! Get a Greek Bible, investigate Every aspect of the topic you don't agree on and you will see that there is, in fact, one understanding of the Christian Standard!?! So many are quick to believe that just being a good person or living a 'good' life is enough to get them to Heaven. All I'm gonna say is.. GOOD LUCK!
All I'm gonna say is...
if you think you can get to heaven by following a strict set of standards, you make Christ's sacrifice MEANINGLESS.
NOT a single one of us deserves to get there. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
Anyone care to tell me the difference between
DRINKING and DRUNKENESS? ;)
Who are you to judge when you've become drunk? Who says you aren't drunk after the first sip? The Bible never gives a standard for when you are judged as officially drunk!
I'm not disgracing his sacrifice! I am the only one here trying to live up to the standards he expects out of Christians!
He didn't die on the cross so you can do what you want and just be forgiven.
He died so that as hard as we try to follow his footsteps, when we do fall short, his Grace is there!
I have traveled to many countries around the world and worshiped with God's people in each place. I think you'd be surprised how many of them use actual, real wine during the celebration of the Lord's Supper. (and, for you legalists, yes, in churches of Christ).
How do you respond to that? Are all of these Christians around the world "wrong?" Or has YOUR culture and YOUR experience taught you that YOU shouldn't drink, not even a sip--lest you become drunk?!
These issues aren't as cut and dry as many of you would like them to be once you leave your suburban neighborhoods in Edmond.
I'm not disgracing his sacrifice! I am the only one here trying to live up to the standards he expects out of Christians!
How can you say that? That seems jugdmental, pharisaical, and blind. You don't know what I am trying to live up to, but I will tell you that I am not trying to live up to YOUR standard. I am trying to live justly, love mercy, and walk humbly with God.
Hopefully we will all walk away from this discussion and carry it on in our real lives, where it counts.
But you gotta stop judging others.
Or even IN Edmond, for crying out loud!!
As the wife of a minister in the cofc, whose husband spends time with other ministers in the cofc, some might just be shocked if you knew that your preacher drank...and, by the way, some of them do! :o) hee hee!
Oh brother, 4:00!
Read Luke 18:9-14. Please look at who Jesus is speaking the parable to.
I don't think you actually believe you are the only one here trying to live up to Christ's standards. I think that was something you wrote in the heat of the moment and clicked "Publish" before you could reconsider.
Now, if you want to retract and repent of an attitude that Jesus clearly states is unjustifiable, we're here for you. Better still, Jesus is here for you even more than we could be. Think it over.
And about the Greek thing ...
The beauty of coming to Jesus for salvation is that it is open to everyone, even people who don't know ancient Koine Greek. Bible study is the same way. The simplest of minds can read the scriptures, come to a saving faith in Jesus, and continue their walk with the Lord in full assurance and with a clear conscience. The deepest of thinkers can do the same, PLUS add all the layers of scholarship and understanding ... AND STILL walk before God with a clear conscience.
Each will have a different understanding of the Bible based on their age, time of life, circumstances, depth of knowledge, emotion, and connection to the Holy Spirit.
THIS IS OBSERVABLE TRUTH. Just the simple fact that we are having this discussion should prove the utter ridiculousness of a statement like "there is one understanding."
BUT THIS IS NOT WRONG.
Paul understood this, and makes the case for what's most important in Philippians 3:7-16. He even leaves it open to disagreements on certain points. "Unity" doesn't mean "Identical."
I hope and pray we all grow in our faith.
Man, this topic is ROCKIN'!
4:00 - I am very much trying to live the way God would like for me to. I am very confident in my salvation and I'm one that has stated I will have a drink very occasionally. Oh, and if I can still do a cartwheel, I think I'm safe of the "where to draw the line!!"When you take a tylenol you can feel a little buzz too. Should we all ignore headaches? If you've had surgery, should you take narcotics because they very much make you "drunk" feeling. Do you treat your body as God's temple? Do you take that verse to mean no smoking? Not eating a lot of fatty foods? Not drinking pop (because that is terrible for you)? How do you know that last cinnamon roll isn't going to be too much and give you a heartattach? Seriously people.
Oh, do you really think you are loved more or are going to heaven before all those cheaters, fornicators, etc. you were talkinga about? You don't know where their heart is and God loves them just the same as he loves you. Isn't boastfulness a sin??????? I'll pray you don't go to hell for being so boastful and full of yourself!
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