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This is an experiment to see how honest people can be if they don't have to identify themselves. Some silly, some deep, but all require honesty.
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36 comments:
Is it morally wrong for soldiers to kill people? Is that the question?
Watch the hit counter. Nice, Monk-like, round number coming up!
Perhaps the more important question is: do we as citizens share in the responsibility? Is the blood of innocents on our hands as well as the soldiers?
So are you saying, christians can't be police men too? What if someone kills someone in a car accident? Does that send them straight to hell? I believe it is wrong to "murder", and I believe that is different from killing someone in an accident or even police men shooting a bad guy or soldiers defending.
My working definition of murder is:
"The deliberate taking of an innocent human life."
All words in that statement are important. I can kill someone but if it is an accident then it is not murder. If I go hunting and take a deer’s life, then that is not murder. I can take the life of an enemy who is trying to kill me and/or my country and that is not murder because that individual was not innocent.
On a side note, the one crime that definitely fits this definition is abortion. The deliberate taking of an innocent human life!
God decides that...not me.
"The deliberate taking of an innocent human life."
What about the innocent Iraqi people who are killed with missiles and bullets, both stray and aimed, simply because they were born in a region where we have chosen to "defend" ourselves? A region where "the enemy" isn't even hiding.
I completely agree with 7:22. Well said.
You can make the case that "thou shalt not kill" refers to "murder," instead of the more generic "kill." Otherwise, God's people violated this countless times in their conquest of Canaan.
However, the more important question comes from the sermon on the mount: how does turning the other cheek (allowing your enemy to strike you again after striking you once, instead of fighting back) and loving your enemy factor into Christians participating in warfare?
It's a complex question with no easy answer.
It gets pretty tricky when we try to start defining killing by anything other than it's definition. To take a life.
10:17 - yes, but the word used in the 10 commandments refers specifically to murder. There's a different word for "kill.".
If you think that a soldier killing in war is wrong then please stop enjoying all of the freedoms that America offers. It's because of the wars that America has fought that we have gained the freedom that we have. So to answer your question...No, I don't think it is not morally wrong to for soldier to kill.
Of course there's different kinds of killing. There's accidental killing. There's negligent killing, which doesn't qualify as accidental, but isn't quite purposeful the way murder is. There's the purposeful killing that armies do against each other which seems to be not murder, but in a separate category in our heads. There's the "collateral damage" killing that happens when civilians get in the way or war. There's the purposeful killing that governments do to punish murderers called "capital punishment." There's self-defense killing which, if proven, is excusable by law.
That's six different kinds of "taking a human life," all with different rationales and consequences. There are probably more that I'm not thinking of. We have to look at the clear intention of the commandment -- "You shall not commit murder." Murder is the willful, intentional taking of a human life -- malice aforethought, as is said. This has to be what God intended, since He Himself ordered the killing of thousands of (wicked) people in the purging of Canaan. Was that murder? By definition, NO, because it was God who ordered it.
There were ancient Jewish laws that protected those who killed by accident or in self-defense. There were also laws that dealt with those who killed or injured another through negligence.
This issue is NOT a clear-cut issue with no gray. Lots of room for interpretations and different levels of belief and application. But the principle is clear, right?
Jesus took it a step further, set the bar higher, to place the focus on our hearts: Don't be angry with another. Don't hate another. It's like what he did with adultery -- lust in your heart is EXACTLY like committing the act of adultery. In the same way, anger or hatred in your heart is EXACTLY like committing the act of murder, in that it is just as sinful, just as much a problem of the heart.
I think the bottom line in most wars is economic rather than ideologic. Looking at it that way, killing for economic gain or economic preservation is wrong.
I think Americans commit idolatry when we love our flag, our military, our nation more than or equally to the amount we love God. I have gotten up and walked out of church services where patriotism is honored. What does that have to do with Christ's sacrifice for me and my gratefulness for him?
And if my citizenship is in heaven, where does that leave space for rah-rah America? I am not saying to be anti-American. I am saying that if we look at our eternal citizenship, then the killing of anyone who is not saved is one soul that will not be won for Christ.
How can we defend that? Jesus never sends us out to kill.
I don't have a problem with people being patriotic, I think it is great. I don't a vast majority of patrotic people put God below the USA, I belive mostly all of them put God first. Being patriotic, to me, is being grateful to God for letting your live here and not some other place in the world and giving Him the Glory and honor for creating such a place for you to temporarily live. What is wrong with being thankful for your blessings (yes, living in the USA compared to the rest of the world is a blessing.)
Do you also walk out on the services when they celebrate the 50+ years of marriage?
I know I don't have to comment, but it just bothers me so much that the question of someone's salvation is being discussed (even hypothetical). God is the judge...no one else. Now discussing if you think it is morally wrong, fine. But do you think one sin is going to send someone straight to hell? oh, I hope not or we will all be there together.
Well its not my place to judge someones eternity. I am going to say that I do think it is morally wrong to kill someone in a war. How does that make us any better than the people we are fighting? Also to 1047 - are these blessings or curses...these "freedoms" great America has to offer? I could move to France..or most of Europe, Australia, England and so on and see get these freedoms. So what makes you think you can determine who gets to live here or not by using their "freedom of speech"
12:03 here.
Nope, I don't walk out when anniversary celebrations are announced. Honoring that marriage honors God.
Equating with flag burning with God-hating does not, and those sentiments were expressed along with the rah-rah.
We need to think souls, not money, not country, not comfort, but souls.
Right, 12:03!
Too many times "Patriotic" Americans equate love of Country with love of God. This is, indeed, idolatrous. I have been in similar services at church where the idea was that God blesses us and no one else, simply because we're a "Christian nation" founded on "Christian beliefs."
That's debatable. The fact is, no Jewish or Christian laws were copied into the U.S. Constitution per se. And the founding fathers wanted to keep religion as far away from the government as possible -- both in control of and controlled by.
So "Christian Nation" has been hijacked by some fringe Christians who believe God should be on our side because we're America. That's the wrong way around. We should be on God's side because he's God, recognizing that he's been around a lot longer than America, and he'll be around forever after America is gone.
And I think we sould take Jesus at his word, and turn the other cheek, and not resist an evil person.
Yes. Think souls, not war. Not even kidding.
3:14, thank you! This is such a hard topic. There are not clear cut answers. Yes, we have recorded examples of God commanding killing. We can't ignore that. But I personally believe that it is more important, as a Christian, for me to value the souls of the lost over my personal freedom. Clearly, oppression and persecution has helped the Church grow (just look at the massive underground church movement in China). So, it is great to be free, but better to be saved!
Well said, 3:22.
I agree so much with 3:02, that I wonder if I was sleepwriting. . .Yes, yes, yes.
I have 1 friend who has been to iraq 4 times he is a e6 for those of you who do not know that is a staff sargent do you think he likes being away from his family for a year at a time? he has a 6 year old and a 3 year old think of the amount of time he has missed out on. I do not nor will i ever ask him if he has killed someone it is not my place to know if he has that is between him and god and im sure he has asked to be forgivin. However if the military does not fight for OUR freedom who will? (i also have a brother in law who is in afganistain). The Doctor who did abortions who was shot at his church on Sunday in my opinon has gone to heaven! the man who shot him on the other hand has a special place in hell in my opinion!!!! The abortion topic PISSES me off greatly i would never have one because i dont feel it is right but it is not my place to Judge the woman/teenager who does it... Ask your self this question how many Teens in your church have made that chocie because if they did not the church was going to excummiunicate their families. After reading the way some of you would treat a preg. teen. I cant say i wouldnt blaim them. also it is not something that can just be stopped if you make illegal then it just happends anyway so why not make it safer... on another note if you were raped could you have that baby??? I personaly dont think i could (and yes I have been raped and had to make the chocie to take the morning after pill or not take it. I also fill like this a form of abortion) yes their is alot of families who could. but could you deal with the fact that you still gave up on a child? better yet could you carry a baby for 9 months and hand it over to someone else? I couldnt!
sorry for the long post!
hello, 7:52 ... So are you saying that you think it's okay for a soldier to kill because you know people in the military?
I'm sorry for your the violence you have suffered through at the hands of an evil person. Abortion does make many people upset. To me, there's a catch-22 in Christian circles ... unwed mothers are condemned/judged/cast out because they got pregnant, and yet would be condemned if they made the choice for abortion, too. Maby if Christians would celebrate the babies more there would be less abortions among teens.
7:52 today -- Dr. Tiller has gone to heaven???? Excuse me???? You have got to be kidding me. That man is a murderer. So is the person who murdered Dr. Tiller. They are BOTH murderers.
I know that GOD is the judge, not me. But in my opinion, Dr. Tiller is absolutely a murderer....as far as whether he's in heaven or not, well, that's not my call, it's God's.
I, too, am sorry for what you've had to suffer. It's very very sad.
I'm not saying that because I know people in the military it makes it right I'm just saying if we don't have men and women fighting for us we can be the next 911 vicitm! As for the doctor who are you to say he is a murder! What if the abortions he was doing were only for women who were going to die? Or their babies were going to die... or had been raped. Do you not think that women who have had these abortions done do not wish everyday they had not done it. So should we line the women up who have had abortions and kill them for what they have done? And also for all you know about the doctor he brought millions to the lord and loved the teen and supported her for making the choice to keep her baby no matter what other christians thought of her! I'm just saying it is not our place to judge anyone on what we feel their sins may be! Only god can do that,and we certianly can't kill them back because we think their murders! Thank you for your kind words about the attacks the reason I say the dr can go to heaven is because all he had to do was repent... I think that the evil man who raped me has the ability to go to heaven because my god is a forgiving god! I have forgivin this man because I don't want to be held accountable for not offering people the same forgiveness that I hope and pray I get that I donot deserve!
If anyone believes our founding fathers did not found this country on christian principles you are sorely mistaken. Try reading some of their speeches and writings. And by the way they wrote state laws speaking against adultry, homosexuality, and sodomy among other things! Some states even had laws about attending church, and laws against atheists. And every state constitution mentions God in their preambles. We can't let the society of today keep telling us that we did not begin as a christian nation. Our founding fathers spoke of seeking God's wisdom, and searching the Bible, and even quoted scriptures in public speeches. We began as a christian nation and our founding fathers would be apalled at the moral and religious state of our country today!
I'm sorry, but he IS a murderer. I firmly believe that. I believe abortion is KILLING a baby. I know there are cases where it is a medical issue as far as the mom goes....but there are so many cases where it is NOT. I don't like the argument "but what about the mom's health" because there are so many abortions that are NOT about the mom's health.
I think abortion anytime in the pregnancy is wrong, but late-term abortions are particularly awful, and Dr. Tiller did abortions 21 weeks or after. Do you know how developed a baby is at 21 weeks??? Very.
Even though I feel strongly about abortion, I DO NOT think the church should judge women who have had abortions. We should welcome them with open arms and love them. WE ALL SIN. Just because I haven't had an abortion, that doesn't mean I don't sin. I do. All the time. So, although I don't think women should have abortions, I do think we should love and accept into our church families those who have.
So is it possible for you to not look down on women who have had abortions?
I am asking this from a practical standpoint: how do we NOT judge people? I think it is very difficult. Could you be best friends with that woman?
Christians are to pray earnestly! For the person having had the abortion and yourself. You may need to pray for the ability to have understanding and patience. As hard as it is for you to be friends or to worship God together, I gurantee, it's 100 times worse for them!
Concerned Christians should also compassionately minister to those who suffer overwhelming remorse and guilt from having had, or having participated in producing, abortions. These people need to be reminded that when they confess their sin to God, He forgives and cleanses. They need to be reminded that Jesus said, "Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (John 6:37). They need the prayerful, moral support of those who are strong in the Lord.
We don't know why people sin, but they do. We need to show compassion and God's love as we would want bestowed upon us.
1:06 am
Where are you getting your information?
1:06 am:
Maybe you are correct, but what irks me is when people say that we stopped being a Christian nation when we "took prayer out of schools" - as if we were fine while killing natives to take their land, or while importing slaves from Africa, or while telling blacks to drink from a different fountain. But OH NO! Don't tell the teachers they can't lead the class in prayer before lunch!
1:06 am here.
My information comes from our founding fathers speeches. Even Benjamin Franklin quoted scripture. These men varied in their faiths but almost all of them spoke of God. Look at your states preamble or opening statement to it's constitution and you will most likely see it refer to or speak of God, our creator. If it's not in today's version try to find the orignal one or an older version and I am sure you will find it.
To 4:56 pm, I totally agree with you. Those things that you mentioned were definitely not marks of a christian nation. And I personally believe that we have been wandering away from christianity as a nation for a very, very long time. Just look at Hollywood and the road they have led our country down over the last 50 + years and we have all willingly followed.
8:02
Why are you blaming Hollywood? The things mentioned (killing natives, using slaves, racial discrimination) were not instigated by Hollywood? Much of the time, they were done by Christians themselves.
I know Hollywood can be a problem, but Hollywood came along late in the game.
I never said Hollywood had anything to do with any of those things. I agreed with the person that made the remarks about slavery and then added in some of my own feelings on why I feel that our nation is not so christian overall anymore.
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